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28 NOVEMBER 2014

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Topic: The Hayemaker - Too much too soon?
Luke (24 Posts) on Thu 18-Dec-2008:

In addition to reading Clive Bernath's article titled "Be Careful What You Wish For, David" I wanted to post my thoughts and see what you guys thought. I am a fan of the "Hayemaker" but I can't help but think that fighting Vitali or Wladimir in his next fight would indeed be too much too soon. Haye has got a lot of talent, and is an extremely powerful puncher but I think that fighting either Klitschko brother is aiming a bit too high at this stage. In my opinion, Haye needs more time to settle into the division before he takes on either of the brothers. Haye has never fought anyone of the size or power of the Klitschko's, and I think they would be too much for him at this stage. I think Wladimir would be an easier fight for him, given the history of his chin, but I am struggling to see Haye himself take a solid jab from either, let alone a proper power punch...I hope he proves me wrong, but thats my thoughts!

gspille (17 Posts) on Thu 18-Dec-2008:

I agree that it may be too soon, but Haye has a puncher's chance here.  He should be a bit quicker than Vitali. 

Realistically, I say Vitali will keep popping the jab and more than likely stop Haye within 5 rounds.

ricky13579 (2 Posts) on Fri 19-Dec-2008:

I think Haye is a good fighter and a breath of fresh air  for the heavyweight divison and also for the sport of boxing.He takes the dangerous fights now rather than later in his career and in the current climate where boxing isnt as big as it use to be this can only be a good thing.However against Vitali he may have found his match the big russian will probably have a bit too much for Haye  but nontheless this should be a great fight

gspille (17 Posts) on Wed 24-Dec-2008:

Haye probably should have landed a fight with that big tomato can Valuev and took his belt, then went for a Klitscho fight. 

universal_soul (1 Posts) on Sat 27-Dec-2008:

I still wish he'll fight Wladimir instead of Vitali (due to Vitali obiged to fight JC Gomez).
I firmly believe that David Haye will knock out Wladimir Klitschko and will make it look easier that many people seem to think. It's of course another proof for the short memory while discussing Wladimir - but this is what it is. Haye should fight younger brother. And this would be a nice tune up for the older one - who's much, much better fighter (although Wlad is a better boxer) with granite chin. We'll see how it develops. I'm sure if it was Haye in, with Wladimir istead of S. Peter - he wouldn't let him off the hook and finish the job.

gspille (17 Posts) on Sun 28-Dec-2008:

I'm not so sure Haye would beat either Klitscho.  He'd be game for a few rounds because of his speed, and them being a bigger slower fighter.
He really needs to fight Valuev first.  I don't know why his people can't see that.

timic (1 Posts) on Tue 30-Dec-2008:

Hayes cunning plan.
The haymakers only way to get a shot is the plan he has embarked upon.  Mouthy, belittling and confronting the two best boxers on the planet the Klitschko brothers.  Eliminaters are a no no as out of the top 20 heavys in the world I reckon more than half could knock him out.  Remember a 40 year old Carl Thompson k.od him in 5.  Yes he was tired but lets see how tired he gets with a heavyweight belting him for a few rounds.  Yes hes 20 pound heavier now but how much of that went on his jaw?  Before someone mentions Wlads jaw, yes its still there for the taking but hes linked up with one of the best trainers in the world and fights cautiously.  My wish for 2009 the supposed deal with Vitali falls through and we see the battle of the mouths.  Haye v Toney a booing competition.
Had my say for now, happy new year. Tim

Luke (24 Posts) on Tue 30-Dec-2008:

Thanks for all your comments guys/(girls?). I am in agreement with the majority, in seeing that the Klitschko brothers possess too much power for the "Hayemaker"...although I would love him to KO both. I am in agreement with the previous comment, which suggested that Haye had to act the way he has in order to get to fight either Klitschko. Haye is vulnerable as we have seen, but it will be very interesting to see how his speed makes a difference, if you look at the Klitschko's recent fights, they haven't fought many people with the speed that Haye possesses. Many didnt think that would be enough for the Pacman against De La Hoya, weight drained or not. I think his speed would have a significant impact if he fights as a counter puncher..who knows how he will react when he gets caught however...

Rain (8 Posts) on Fri 2-Jan-2009:

I thought Haye stood a chance againt Wlad due to his power, fast hands and Wlads chin issues, but against Vitali.... I dont give him any, I dont see him KO'ing Vitali, I saw Lennox hit Vitali with some huge shots and he never moved anywhere, one particular uppercut would have decapitated most fighters and I dont believe Haye hits harder than Lennox.

I think Haye will start well but will get caught as he slows down... good luck to him though.

Cestrian (82 Posts) on Sun 4-Jan-2009:


Great thread Luke - I don’t agreed with what a lot of people have wrote about Wladimir V Haye

A lot of people on this thread are say Wladimir is to big etc – I don’t agree with this…. 

Wladimir Klitscko has been knocked out twice by smaller guys than Haye, who had a bit of speed and can bang. HE HAS NO CHIN and limited defence when someone fast cuts loose, he freezes and goes rigid like Bruno!

Following these defeats he has become a much more cautious fighter, content to just paw out the jab for 12 rounds even against slow or light punchers. If he see his target weaken enough to posses no threat he steps it up and lets a few right hands go….Is it me or should heavyweight boxing not be like that ? It’s the flagship of our sport ! Joe Frazier, Tyson and Lewis would all go into the trenches to give us the Ko’s, its good for the sport.

Haye would murder him, he is much faster than both Vladimir’s previous conquers bigger and a lot more powerful. He also can box like a middle weight comfortable throwing classy combinations with real spite.
 He will be able to catch Wladimir almost at will. In short he is the worst kind of fighter for Wladimir Klitschko to face and he would take his head of in 3/4 rounds..... For that reason Wladimir V Haye - FIGHT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. 

The Klitscko brothers are very very clever business people that’s why we have Vitali V Haye instead. Wladimir‘s schedule is a lot more open than Vitali’s having just defended his belts. Vitali has a mandatory due….  Its so obvious what is happening. Wladimir is meant to be the heavyweight champion of the world according to several bodies yet hides behind his brother. We could be watching a school yard fight not the holder of 3 heavyweight belts.

Haye would be giving away 2 stone to Wladimir but Vitali is nearly a stone bigger than his brother and two inches taller. More importantly Vitali has a cast iron jaw. As its already been mention in this thread he took full blooded shot from the great Lewis (and a Lewis built for power for that fight coming 18 stone + instead of the 17 stone speedy version of Lewis) and he did not wobble - his face got smashed up before his chin.
 Unless his chin has started to decline and it could give his age (pushing 38 come the fight), then I don’t give Haye a punchers chance. I see the only way Haye has half a chance is to try and box and let the odd stunning hard shot go in the manner of Roy Jones v Ruiz, even then he will be giving away a huge reach advantage. I don’t see this happening Haye has the heart of a lion, a fighters fighter, that’s why he took this fight. I see him getting into a war and there can only be one winner there Once he has been beaten by Vitali they will freeze him out of the heavyweight picture and his brother will never have to fight him.

Big brother protecting little brother. 

If Haye advisors had a bit of sense (and they have been questionable - throwing him in with Carl Thomson when he was still a six round kid) then he should use the next 12 months to slowly put more size (another stone - about 16.5 is where he wants to be with no loss of speed) on and let his power come up a bit more (it can take up to 2 years for your power to fully come up). Use the time to Ko his way to the top of the mandatory of Wladimir’s belts (2 or 3 fights should do it) and then force him to fight. As Lennox Lewis said he needs to take time before jumping in with Vitali. He could fight his big brother for more money as heavyweight unification in 18 months time when he will be a established season heavy and Vitali would be pushing 40…

maz (2 Posts) on Tue 6-Jan-2009:

I disagree; i think it will be a great time for haye to make his mark. vitali come's out slow so haye can either come out all guns blazing and catch him cold or get in close and do the job that way providing vitali does not grab him and tie him up like all the rest of the opponents he fights.when he thinks he is going to get hit , he ties them up, some might say that is good boxing skills. it is if your hurt but he does it because he is frightened of being hit. out in 5. YOU HERD IT HERE FIRST. 

Luke (24 Posts) on Tue 6-Jan-2009:

Interesting points...I have enjoyed reading the responses to this thread. Does anyone know if the fight has actually been signed for definate yet, and where this fight would take place?

maz (2 Posts) on Thu 8-Jan-2009:

Hi. the fight will be on june 20th at stamfod bridge.

Cestrian (82 Posts) on Fri 9-Jan-2009:

MAZ -  I dont know what you have bee drinking but I will have some.....

Firstly its been common knowledge for 5 days Vitali V Gommez is on Haye is out in the cold. (forced defense by WBC)

2nd - These coments of Vitali comming out slow and getting caught cold....& he ties opponents upp because Frightened of being hurt...

Is david Haye taking his corner stool in with him ??

Only as I and several other people in this thread have said - Lewis could not wobble him - when he hit him flush on the chin dozens of times. FACT - A 18 stone 4 - Lewis bangs harder than Haye. Vitali chin is cast iron unless it has rusted very very badly in the last 5 years.

Also Vitali is not as slow as you think.... He is nto anywhere near as fast as Haye but he has quick hands for a big guy. Haye is easy to hit when he gets dragged into a war or when he tires from 8/9 on....

Your other advice about Haye "get in close and do the job that way" As a smaller man by 3 stone that is the worst possible advice you could give him. As a big guy you look to close down the distance between you and a smaller fighter - It reduces the effectiveness of his hand speed and movement and he will also be able to use his physical size to lean on hime and push him around to grind haye down. It alos makes Haye a lot easier to catch.

I for one am chufft to bits this fight is not going to happen any time soon.... To much to soon. As the Rolling Stones once said "Time is on my side" He is a baby for a heavywhats the rush ? In 18 months time he will be nearing his peak and a stone heavier.... the Klitsckos are GETTING OLDER

wardstar (55 Posts) on Sun 11-Jan-2009:

Having been away for a while and not posting a message on this great sight i want to give my views (again) on the haymaker. Firstly people read to much into the fact that he lost an early fight to Carl Thomson (13th or 14th fight). I believe the reason he lost that fight was more down to conditioning and arrogance than ability.He's learned his lesson trust me. As a cruiser he's sought out and beat the best in the division to become Britains only ever universally recognised cruiserweight champ by beating the linear champ in Mormeck who may be small but can bang with the best and beat all the top yanks. Respect. Secondly as a heavyweight he's done the same, sought out the best available challengers,his only two fights at heavyweight have ended in spectacular wins so i believe he will beat all heavyweights around today bar Vitali Klitchko, but with his power and ability i wouldnt be suprised if he beat the elder superior brother. Wladimir in my opinion would not last 6 rounds with Haye because of his in ability to take a descent shot and remain upright. Haye wins by KO. The only other heavyweight i see giving Haye problems is Chagev because of his style and durability. Like Lennox Lewis Haye will always have his doubters, but also like Lewis i believe Haye will be a great heavyweight champion, he may lose a couple on the way, but he will give people a reason to follow and enjoy boxing for a good few years, so for that and that alone i'm behind David Haye all the way, it will be a roller coster of a ride but thats the name of the game.David Haye the Heavyweight champion of the world.True.

sneaky right hand
sneaky right hand (4 Posts) on Wed 14-Jan-2009:

PEOPLE seem to think KLITS is unbeatable if ANYone CAN beat HIM its HAYE HE might have a great chin but age takes things away from a fighter klits will be hit real hard & often i dont care who he has fought LEWIS included haye will be throwing bombs in combinations if a 2 to 4 punch combo lands klits will go down. Stamina should not be a problem for HAYE as he does not have to loose lots of weight like when he was at Cruiser & there for his chin should be better as well. HAYE'S camp should work on his countering because i think klits will be throwing his jab out alot which opens it up for haye & his overhand right or right cross also they should focus on getting of with power combos & getting out not straight back BUT on an angle this will also keep klits turning & off balance & wont let him set him self as quick & maybe tire him in the middle to late rounds so thats my feelings on the fight CHEERS TO ALL & i HOPE THEY MAKE THIS FIGHT HAPPEN AS THIS IS THE BEST HEAVIES FIGHT OUT THERE OTHER THAN THE 2 BROTHERS GETTING IT ON BUT THAT AINT HAPPENING.

Johnboy (58 Posts) on Thu 15-Jan-2009:

I think Haye is a much-needed breath of fresh air in a too-boring division. He is #4 in my new Top 5:


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