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31 OCTOBER 2014

 

ATE: Most Exciting Boxers, Haye-Klitschkos, Pacquiao-Hatton in USA, Ali on Tyson, Calzaghe-Froch, Mundine, Audley and More


Manny
Manny

In today’s edition of Ask The Editor (ATE), a reader tells over 35 year-old boxers to retire so we can see more of the most exciting fighters in the world, we look at the Haye-Klitschko brothers boxing triangle and question why the Pacquiao-Hatton fight will be held in the USA. We try to find out what Muhammad Ali said about Mike Tyson’s punching power, look at the Calzaghe-Froch rivalry, Anthony Mundine’s future, ask what happened to Audley Harrison and much more.

Name : Richard McFeeters
Country : United Kingdom
Your Question :
2008 was the year I became disillusioned with boxing. I’ve had enough of these faded legends earning their retirement fund and stealing TV exposure at the expense of young talent, and then producing largely uninspiring mismatches. I took one look at Setanta’s autumn schedule and cancelled my subscription. I’m glad Hopkins vs. Pavlik and Calzaghe vs. Jones bombed in terms of PPV numbers, because these are not the fights we want to see. However, 2009 could rekindle my enthusiasm for the sport. I hope everyone involved with the Froch vs. Pascal promotion got the viewing figures they deserved. This was the type of fight we want to see, I hope fighters and promoters recognise this. You can argue that the current crop of young contenders and champions aren’t as good as their predecessors, but they’re shaping up to be more exciting. From Vic Darchinyan through to David Haye, there are some great potential matches for next year. To all our faded 35+ former champions - you have served your sport with courage and dignity - now please leave the stage so the next generation can entertain us.

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Richard, of course you have a point. But let’s not forget Hopkins proved he’s far from finished by handing Pavlik his first defeat. I do agree, though, that the likes of Darchinyan and Haye are exciting fighters deserving of their exposure on TV. And yes, Froch vs. Pascal was a very evenly matched cracking fight. Let’s hope we see more of these fights in 2009.

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Richard, kudos to your comments, and I think there’s still room for some of the 35+ stars as well in the right fights. For instance Margarito-Mosley looks to be a winner on paper for early 2009.

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: I’ll disagree on the Hopkins-Pavlik fight, I thought Bernard was brilliantly entertaining that night. Here is my Top 12 Most Consistently Exciting elite level boxers in the world today that I want to see more often. HBO and Showtime in the USA and television networks around the world take note.
1. Vic Darchinyan
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Edwin Valero
4. Ricky Hatton
5. Sakio Bika
6. Israel Vazquez
7. Rafael Marquez
8. Juan Manuel Marquez
9. David Haye
10. Antonio Margarito
11. Michael Katsidis
12. Arthur Abraham

MICHAEL NORBY ANSWERS:
Richard….ssssssshhh. Keep it down. Boxing promoters and networks might hear your outrageous plea for entertaining fights and their heads will all explode simultaneously.

Name : Jack Kelly
Country : United Kingdom
Your Question :
So what’s the story with Vitali going back on his deal to fight David Haye? Last thing I had heard before all the Gomez stuff broke was Vitali & his manager saying they were going to go-ahead with the Haye fight with or without the WBC’s backing... So what happened?! Has Vitali bottled it and chosen the easier opponent? Did they decide the WBC belt is more important? Or are the Klitschko brothers both going to frustrate Haye on purpose now to teach him a lesson for his arrogant methods in getting a shot? I think Vitali probably decided to take the same stance Hatton took with Junior Witter, and not give Haye a shot easily to prove who is really in command...I think Wlad however really wants nothing to do with Haye, and will take the podgy & sloppy Arreola instead. I couldn’t really call a Haye vs. Vitali fight, although my gut says Vitali may be too much for Haye. I think Haye KO’s Wlad inside 6 rounds tho. I think maybe the brothers feel the same way. What are you guys thoughts on it all?

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Hi Jack. I think you have pretty much covered every theory. I can only presume Vitali can make more money fighting Gomez and of course it is a mandatory defence. And maybe Vitali did decide to teach Haye a lesson. One thing I do disagree with, though, is I actually think Gomez is a tougher fight for him And let’s not forget the Klitschko’s and Gomez were once stable mates back in the Universum days. So there is history there. And I think Germans fight fans will be looking forward to this one. I’m told Klitschko even upped his offer from $1.2 million to $1.5 million so he must have wanted the fight. You know, because of Wladimir’s suspect chin and engine, he will always be vulnerable against even the mediocre heavyweight contenders

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Jack, you make a lot of good points regarding the Klitschko’s; their strategy; and the whole David Haye situation. In regards to Vitali, I think his team thought it best to keep the WBC belt; follow through with mandatory challenger Gomez and ponder Haye and Arreola later. Haye might indeed beat Wladimir, but I don’t think the unified WBO/IBO/IBF champion is avoiding the Hayemaker. As far as Vitali goes, I think we need to see him in another fight before we can really gauge of what the WBC champion’s got in the tank, and the same goes with Haye...what has he really got as a heavyweight? From what I know right now, I would pick Vitali to stop Haye sometime after the seventh round.

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: The Vitali Klitschko fight with Haye is not as big without the WBC title on the line. The Hayemaker wants to fight for a world title. Vitali agreed to fight Haye, tried to get around the Gomez mandatory with the WBC, failed, so he has put the Haye fight back until later in the year, as long as he gets past Gomez. Haye beats Wladimir, but loses to Vitali the way I see it at the moment.

MICHAEL NORBY ANSWERS: I really don’t think that Haye would win against either Klitschko and I’m sure that neither brother would be frightened of the challenge.

Name : Wizzy Janew
Country : United Kingdom
Your Question :
I’m glad to hear that the Hatton vs. Pacman fight appears to be done and I’m also glad that the writers on this website haven’t been dazed by the DLH performance into thinking that Manny will walk through him, like a lot of people seem to believe will now happen. I actually think that Hatton’s strength at 140 and the fact that he’s spent almost his whole career there will see him claim a points win. In either case it should be a toe to toe fight of the year. I was just wondering why it is that it makes better financial sense to have this fight in the USA (as it appears that it will be held there)? I’m gutted as I wont be able to afford to go to this one, I’m still paying off the Hatton vs. Castillo fight, which was seemingly twenty years ago. In the UK, we have the majority of our football including the FA Cup final on a Saturday afternoon, enjoy it with some drinks and then go out after. If the fight was held in the UK there would be tonnes of PPV buys (HBO could surely sort out a deal with Sky or something), a massive gate and those in the USA could watch it in the afternoon (how come this isn’t a done thing over there?). Neither fighter is American after all. Another option is to have it in the UK and make us stay up to watch it in the early hours like we did for the Tszyu fight. I doubt that the Philippines have a venue big enough, but for the sake of argument that’s another option that suits one of the fighters. I just can’t see as many Brits being able to afford this one as is normally the case.

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Wizzy, the fact is HBO are paying big bucks for this fight and what with the site fees paid in Las Vegas, it makes sense for the fight to take place in the USA. Also, the fight will take place Las Vegas time, early hours of the morning in UK. Lastly, regardless of where the fight is, PPV sales will go through the roof in the USA, UK and the Philippines. Why? Because it’s a great, great fight. And for the record, I agree with you, Hatton is a strong 140lbs compared to a weight weakened 147lbs Oscar De La Hoya. Of course all this will be irrelevant if Pacquiao does not agree to a 50-50 split.

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Wizzy, my guess is that Pacquiao’s promoter, Top Rank, which is based in Las Vegas, has a great deal in the works with one of the local casino properties and probably doesn’t want to take the show on the road.

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Clive and Greg makes some good points. HBO want their fights live on Saturday nights in the USA, they believe there will always be a larger viewing audience then. It seems the casino site fee, USA and UK PPV sales outweigh having the fight in the UK in front of a much larger live gate. I had dinner with Kostya Tszyu the other night and he also gives Ricky Hatton a very good chance of winning. Hatton’s pressure will be the key.

MICHAEL NORBY ANSWERS: I’m with you, Wizzy. I think Hatton has the tools to beat the Pacman, although it will be an incredibly close and exciting contest. I’d love to see the fight taking place in a massive stadium in Britain – what a sight that would be. The fact is, though, that all you fanatics in the UK will stay up, pay up and tune in even though it’ll take place at 4am. Making it happen in the USA, therefore, makes perfect sense.

Name : Rouge Romero
Country : Cuba
Your Question :
Nine out of ten so called boxing experts predicted a De La Hoya win last December 6, and also predicted a KO win for DLH. When the fight was over and Pacquiao TKO’d DLH, these same experts are the ones who first made excuses that ODLH was old, can’t hardly throw a punch, etc. These writers were also those who said the same statement when Pacquiao demolished the likes of Ledwaba, Barrera and Morales, old fighters they said. Where in fact urged Barrera to retire, but after that Barrera won against EM, and gave JMM all he could handle, if the knockdown was counted, MAB would have won that fight. Now, Pacquiao vs. Hatton: would Hatton became old too? After Pacquiao beat him and called Hatton over the hill?

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Rouge, as of right now, I see Pacquiao having too much hand speed and movement for Hatton. Prior to the De La Hoya fight, I thought bigger men like Oscar would simply wear down Pacman, but the Philippine star is a special kind of talent. That being said, I think De La Hoya made a huge mistake by not clinching more in an attempt to slow down the pace. Hatton should probably try this strategy because Ricky isn’t going to win a boxing match with Pacquiao.

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: I picked Pacquiao to beat De La Hoya. But right now, I’m leaning towards a Hatton win in a thriller. I could see both boxers going down and getting up. It should be a classic and I can’t wait to see it. If Pacquiao wins, on the evidence at hand, Hatton is still at his best.

MICHAEL NORBY ANSWERS: De La Hoya was as flat as a pancake against Pacquiao, Rouge. It was plain to see. If Pacman beats Hatton at 140lbs this summer then he’ll get all the respect in the world from me. There is little chance that Hatton will enter the ring as physically unprepared as Oscar did in December.

Name : Danny Johnson
Country : Australia
Your Question :
I understand that SecondsOut’s Thomas Hauser is Muhammad Ali’s biographer and close friend so, bearing this in mind, I would like to ask Thomas that, to the best of his knowledge, has Muhammad Ali ever publicly declared Mike Tyson to be the hardest puncher in heavyweight history bar none? Apparently, he said Tyson hit harder than both George Foreman and Ernie Shavers. While I regard Ali to be the greatest heavyweight of all time and respect his opinion on such matters, how would Ali know either way? He has certainly never fought Tyson or even sparred with him, so how would Ali know? Do you agree with him, or was Mr Ali simply misquoted?

THOMAS HAUSER ANSWERS: To the best of my knowledge, Ali never said that.

Name : David Marshall
Country : USA
Your Question :
Interested to hear your opinions on how the Antonio Margarito vs. Shane Mosley fight will go. Is Shane to small to get inside and hurt him?

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Hi David. You know, I just can’t see a 37 year-old Mosley being able to keep a prime Antonio Margarito at bay for 12 rounds. I can see Margarito grinding Mosley down much the same way he did against Cotto.

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: David, I am going to go with Margarito via close majority decision. Mosley is still performing at a very high level, but Margarito is seven years younger and if the WBA champion prepares properly, I think he slightly outworks Mosley to earn the points win.

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Margarito should win a close one on points. If he doesn’t and Shane beats him, all of the momentum Margarito built in beating Cotto will be lost. If he really is the best welterweight in the world, Margarito finds a way to win well.

MICHAEL NORBY ANSWERS: Shane’s boxing brain will be the key factor in this fight. I think that he is the puncher in this fight and he’ll be looking to catch Margarito coming in throughout the evening. Even though the Mexican brutalized Mosley conqueror Miguel Cotto last time out, I think this is an extremely tough fight to call.

Name : Thomas Waltz
Country : Australia
Your Question :
I don’t think Jermain Taylor wants to fight Calzaghe, unless Calzaghe hangs around for another 10 months or so. If Taylor only fights in the USA at 166-168lbs, and Anthony Mundine only fights in Australia at 162 to 165 lbs, it is obvious that Taylor is there for making serious money. I haven’t seen but one big name come to Australia to fight Mundine. Does Jermain Taylor want to fight Kessler? Probably not. We know Mundine doesn’t want to fight Kessler again. Taylor and Mundine should fight. Mundine is No.8 in the WBC rankings, and Taylor is No.2 in the WBC rankings. I’m sure Taylor and Mundine would risk it all in New York, Nevada, California, or New Jersey. Those are the places HBO would be happy to stage the fight. We know Mundine doesn’t want to fight Taylor in the southeast USA. I don’t know if Mundine is only wanting to fight in Australia. He probably doesn’t want to go beyond New Zealand in his overseas travels. Now that Mundine has vacated the WBA title, the next best thing is the WBC title, or the Commonwealth title. Mundine isn’t interested in being a middleweight or super middleweight Commonwealth champion if he had to go the UK to get the title. And Mundine is there for Sakio Bika or to lure some big name from the USA or Europe to fight him in Australia. I think Mundine is either going to go down to middleweight, or is going to fight someone in the top 7 of the WBC rankings at 168 lbs

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Thomas, it looks like Mundine is locked in to fighting Shannan Taylor February 11 in Wollongong, New South Wales. If Mundine wins, I’d love to see a Taylor-Mundine fight anytime, anywhere….it would be a good scrap!

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Mundine has said he wants to challenge WBA middleweight champion Felix Sturm in 2009. Taylor is going to stay at super middleweight, so I don’t see a Taylor-Mundine fight happening anytime soon. Also, Taylor’s promoter Lou DiBella is trying to make a deal for Taylor to fight on Showtime in the USA.

Name : Stacey White
Country : Australia
Your Question :
Tell me Paul because I need to know, is Anthony “The Man” Mundine going to step up against true opposition this year or not, because I along with many others are getting real sick of this? Only honest opinions will be tolerated!

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Mundine’s big fight for 2008 was going to be a Danny Green rematch. The Man was going to move up and challenge Green for his WBA light heavyweight world title and get paid a lot of money for doing it. But Green retired and Mundine’s plan for a world title in a second weight class against a boxer he had already beaten was gone. Mundine is moving down to middleweight now to fight Shannan Taylor on February 11 and is the WBA No.1 contender to champion Felix Sturm. That is his plan so far for 2009. Is it conquering the world like Mundine has promised? Probably not. Mundine turns 34 in May and is running out of time to become the best in the world like he has promised. A win over Sturm could see Mundine use the WBA belt to get a big fight in the USA this year. I watch with great interest.


Name : Ian Benson
Country : Canada
Your Question :
Hi guys, first let’s get this out of my system. I watched Calzaghe right from the Eubank fight, which I still feel he would have lost if Chris hadn’t been playing cruiser. That being said, he won and went on to became a very good champ. Over the last few fights he at last did fight at least two meaningful opponents, Kessler and the over hyped Lacy .So finally he was given some of the respect he felt he deserved. To further try and cement his legacy, he fought B-Hop. Ok, it was a good fight which could have been scored either way, then he fights Roy. I loved to see Calzaghe against Roy when he was at his best, but let’s be fair, it wasn’t the same Roy. So let’s look at the big picture. The Kessler fight, OK I accept was a solid showing. Lacy, I’m not so sure, that leaves Bernard and Roy. I can’t help feeling that if both were in their prime it would have been a different story. Fair play to Joe, I’m glad he made the money and retired happy .But now it seems he’s decided to talk trash and put down others. Carl Froch deserves better and I’m saddened by Joe’s comments, the boxing press and fans alike put aside Joe’s choices to defend his WBO title in Europe and gave him respect in the end, so why Joe do you now feel it your right to go this way? I hope you have the dignity and the regard for your fellow pros to at least say you were mistaken? I feel that like myself, fans around the world who were at last happy to see Joe get some credit he craved, will be more ready to remember him with respect if he at least came across with an apology.

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: I really do see where your coming from, Ian. And I have always harped on about fans and fighter disrespecting other fighters. There is no need for it, but unfortunately hype is a necessary marketing tool in this sport. Having said that, let’s not forget it was Carl Froch that started calling out Calzaghe two years ago or more in a bid to boost his profile. Let’s be honest here, Froch’s fight with Jean Pascal was a cracker and Carl is the WBC champion, but Calzaghe is a premiership fighter, demanding the biggest purses. No disrespect to Carl but he has a way to go yet before he headlines on HBO, stateside against the Hopkins and Pavlik’s of this world.

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Ian, I’m not completely up to snuff regarding Calzaghe’s recent comments, I must admit, but I believe there’s very little room for negative analysis regarding the quality of Joe’s opposition and his overall body of work. The guy is an undefeated pound-for-pound star. Unless he’s sounding off at the Queen, I’ll let Calzaghe talk a little smack and not pass too much judgment.

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Kessler and Hopkins were Calzaghe’s two best wins. For all his talent, there were many wasted fights where Calzaghe could have fought better opponents. But if Calzaghe retires now, he will always remain undefeated and will always be the champ. Froch has the chance now to do what Calzaghe did. I watch with interest.

MICHAEL NORBY ANSWERS: Let’s face it, Ian. Joe Calzaghe is in a totally different league to Carl Froch. He’s probably gotten pissed off at listening to Carl call him out time and time again. Froch is a good fighter, but he was never going to get a shot at Calzaghe.

Name : Chris Lewis
Country : United Kingdom
Your Question :
Just watched Carl Froch win his world title and although it was nice to see a recognised world title being won by a British fighter, I can’t go along with ITV’s anointing of him as the best super middleweight in the world and a superstar in the making. He was caught repeatedly with his chin in the air, spent a lot of time doing nothing and pawing out an ineffective jab and his much vaunted power did not put a dent in a man described as chinny by his own fans on forums. On this display, Froch does not beat Kessler, would struggle against Pavlik and Taylor and would get absolutely humiliated by Calzaghe. I think this fight exposed a lot of flaws and Carl needs to change a lot, otherwise he is going to be exposed at the top level. What do you guys think? PS. How could one judge give Froch ten rounds in that fight?! Awful judging!

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Hi Chris, again I have to be honest and agree with most of what you said, which is why I said in the above question that Carl has a long way to go before he commands any kind of big fights stateside. My question is, can Carl improve his defence at this stage of his career? Of course, ITV will be building up their contracted fighters in the same way Sky and Setanta do, but to be fair Barry McGuigan did say after the Froch vs. Pascal fight that he had a little way to go before mixing it with Mikkel Kessler.

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Chris, even if Froch dominated Pascal – it’s easy right now to compare him in a negative light to the likes of Pavlik, Taylor, Kessler and Calzaghe. The aforementioned four are great fighters. Let’s see if the old adage about a fighter improving after he wins a world title applies to Froch…maybe Froch-Taylor turns out to be more competitive than you think.

MICHAEL NORBY ANSWERS: Respect to Froch for winning the title and treating fans to a wonderfully entertaining fight. I hope that he can make a few shillings now with a fight against a marquee name. I tend to think, however, that he’ll find it extremely difficult to come away with a win against any of the guys you mentioned.

Name : Luke Rich
Country : United Kingdom
Your Question :
Is it me or do top class European fighters on average seem to have better engines than top class fighters from the rest of the world especially the U.S. I watched Pascal and Froch and saw them go at a tremendous pace for 12 rounds, especially compared to Lacy-Taylor. Also, I watch Ricky Hatton and although not as physically ripped to the eye or arguably skilled, he never stops (the Tszyu fight a prime example). Then of course you have the obvious one in Joe Calzaghe, many times have I watched the Lacy fight and always laugh at Lacy’s trainer telling him around the 4th, “He cannot keep this pace”. I think David Haye’s conditioning is what is going to lead him to any success in the heavies. An advantage obvious over most heavies. In conclusion I think at the top level Europe especially the U.K. have a massive advantage on conditioning, what do you think? Do the States need better conditioning coaches?

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Hi Luke. All the fighters you mention do have exceptional engines apart from David Haye in my opinion. In fact, I have always thought that David’s stamina would be his downfall against a genuine tough, durable heavyweight that can drag David into the second half of a fight.

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Luke, an interesting observation…you may be on to something with the possible exception of Haye. I still need to see Haye’s stamina and punch output tested by a top-tier heavyweight.

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: It is all very relevant. Their stamina to fight is why they are successful. If you can’t fight a good pace for twelve rounds, you are giving your opponent and advantage. I read recently that experts claim running is only 60% of the physical capacity of sparring. Going on that, boxers need to do lots of fast sparring to get in shape.

MICHAEL NORBY ANSWERS: That is a great email, Luke. I haven’t read a study that explores this issue and I honestly couldn’t tell you if it’s accurate or not.

Name : John Fox
Country : Australia
Your Question :
Why is a boxer allowed to dehydrate before weighing-in, everyone knowing full well that it is an incorrect, sometimes dangerous and misleading factor in the contest?

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: John, I think the question is best directed at the promoters, broadcasters and managers who allow this to happen. On the other side of the coin, the WBC do conduct check weigh-ins in the weeks leading up to a fight.

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: John, fighters have been dehydrating themselves to make weight for a long time…it’s part of the sport. I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but it happens and will continue to happen. There’s often a lot of money at stake and if a boxer needs to make the contracted weight, he’ll do whatever it takes.

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: How do you stop it? Make boxers weigh-in the day of the fight and it will still happen. The boxer is trying to get an advantage over their opponent by coming down to a weight they should not be fighting at. A lot of the time it works. Some times it doesn’t. See De La Hoya-Pacquiao as a most recent example.

MICHAEL NORBY ANSWERS: Good question. Some of the sights at weigh-ins are just downright frightening. Jose Luis Castillo and Erik Morales were two of the more memorable ones for me. Bones wrapped in skin.

Name : Barnaby Chesterman
Country : Italy
Your Question :
Far be it for me to kick a man when he’s already down (and quite possibly out) but what is the problem with Fraudley ‘A-Farce’ Harrison? He’s a big lump, has apparently fast hands, was a top amateur, he can even bang as he proved in stopping Danny Williams in three rounds - a man who lasted eight rounds of a fearsome clubbing at the hands of Vitali Klitschko. So why is Fraudley so crap? Is it purely mental? Is he scared of getting hit? Is he unfit? Was his Olympic triumph the biggest fluke of all time? What makes this guy so average when he was supposed to be a prospect? Was he simply never that good to begin with and in fact only his big gob ever thought he was anything more than a club fighter? And what now does the future hold for him. Do you think he’ll just settle down on the British or European circuit (and stop embarrassing himself by talking of world titles)? Or will he try and find another career he might be a little more successful at?

CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Barnaby I have always thought Audley was a legend in his own mind. Also, I think he was paid far too much and allowed to dictate his own destiny by the BBC. And let’s not forget, winning am Olympic medal now is not the same as it was 20 years ago. Audley had all the tools but if you do not have the desire to train and the inner steel to go that little bit extra, you will not succeed. Audley was just not hungry enough. And he can forget the European circuit, that’s arguably tougher to crack than the world scene right now.

GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Barnaby, I’m probably the least qualified of the SecondsOut team to comment on Harrison, simply because I haven’t seen him enough, but the heavyweight ranks and boxing in general is littered with promising talent that never reaches the success its apparently capable of. Harrison just might be scared of success and for whatever reason, can’t get over the hump mentally to make it happen in the ring.

PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: He started his career rather late as a heavyweight and then got a stack of money for fighting lesser level opponents which did not condition him properly to take the next step up. The times I spoke with Audley, I got the impression that he felt he was further advanced in his career than he really was. Physically, he had all the tools. But he got the big money early and did not push himself enough to get to the very top.

MICHAEL NORBY ANSWERS: Audley’s Olympic victory was not a fluke by any means, but it goes to show – you take the headgear off and subtract the over officious judges and you have a totally different sport. Some guys flourish and some can’t take it. Guess which category A-Force belongs in?



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