ATE: Pacquiao-Cotto Review, Pac-Man vs. Money, Paul Williams Credit, Beating Ali, Wacky Outside the Ring and More
Manny "Pac-Man" Pacquiao
In today’s edition of Ask The Editor (ATE), we review Manny Pacquiao’s brilliant performance against Miguel Cotto and look further a field to a Pac-Man vs. Money Mayweather match. We consider the future for Miguel Cotto, give extra credit to Paul Williams, talk further about beating Muhammad Ali, recall some wacky outside the ring occurrences and much more.
Name : Viel Mervic Nuestro
Country : Philippines
Your Question :
Hello SO Team again. I know you saw the fight, and I’m sure you’ll agree with me that it was a great, great fight. Kudos to both Pacquiao and Cotto! There was also two histories created that night. The first one came when Yuri Foreman became the first Israeli-born, Rabbi-to-be boxer to win a world title. The most important was when Manny Pacquiao just nabbed a record 7th world title in as many divisions, and he answered the many questions like, can he take a punch from a real welterweight, with a resounding yes! I think he can be ranked in the Top 20 now in the all-time greats list, and should he beat Mayweather or Mosley or both, he’ll crack the Top 10 or better yet, the Top 5. Cotto on the other hand, as brave as he was, cannot deal with Pac’s speed and aggressiveness in the later rounds. I guess that answered the question on Cotto, whether he was damaged goods or not. And I honestly think he is not damaged goods, since he kept up with Pacquiao early and the fight was turning up to be even at that point. It’s just that Pacquiao is too good. Cotto fired his best punches but Pac never budged. The weird angles of the punches from Pac-Man were the problems for Cotto. Meanwhile, I would grade the undercard an "E" as in Exceeds Expectations (Harry Potter?). Also, we all know the world clamours for a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight now, right? If this Pacquiao-Cotto fight, (whose main combatants are non-Americans) sells more than a one million PPV buys (which is a given) and outsells the Mayweather-Marquez mismatch (one American, one Mexican), do you think that by Mayweather asking for a 60-40 split in his favor against Pacquiao, he’s clearly saying to the world, I don’t want to fight Manny Pacquiao and that’s my excuse? If and when they fight, who would you favor to win and why?
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Viel, I wish I knew who would win out of Mayweather and Pacquiao. I feel that if the fight happens Manny will be facing a fighter that will not be weight drained for the first time in three fights. At the moment I feel Mayweather knows that he will have to be at his absolute skilful best to beat Manny and I feel he can win. The reason being, even though Manny was excellent against De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto, all three left some of the fight in the gym due to weight issues and all three provided a static target. Mayweather has no such weight problems and possesses excellent boxing skills, especially on the back foot and has great lateral movement.
GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Viel, I agree with your observations. Cotto is a very good fighter who was beaten by a phenom and future Hall of Famer in Pacquiao. I don’t know if Mayweather insisting on a 60/40 split in his favor to fight Pac-Man is an excuse or just Mayweather’s ego dictating the need to be viewed as the main attraction of this proposed mega fight.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Manny Pacquiao was brilliant against Miguel Cotto and I agree that Cotto did have plenty left. Manny just beat it out of him. Mayweather-Pacquiao needs to be a 50-50 split. Floyd’s ego wants to dictate that he gets the bigger share, but while he is a brilliant fighter in his own right, he certainly doesn’t have the monster fan appeal that Pacquiao does. This far out from the fight, if it does go ahead, I think I’ll be sticking with Pacquiao on points.
MICHAEL NORBY: Congrats to both history makers, Viel. Pacquiao’s speed and ability to absorb the best Cotto could throw at him and fire back ten-fold, was stunning. I knew the fight was done after the third round to be honest. As far as Pacquiao vs. Mayweather goes – I truly think that we’ll see that fight happen. I really do – both fighters fancy their chances, it would generate massive amounts of money and there is really nothing else (save perhaps a Mosley fight for either man) that comes close to generating huge interest.
JERRY GLICK ANSWERS: Your take is good. As to your statement that Pac-Man vs. Cotto was a fight between two non-Americans, be very careful who you say that to. Puerto Ricans vote for the U.S President and are Americans. I think that both Floyd and Manny understand that a fight between them is a career hallmark fight. The winner will grow existentially and the loser will be remembered too as is Joe Frazier. My pick remains Mayweather. He is a talent in the mould of the two Sugars, Robinson and Leonard, and Ali. He will find a way to overcome.
Name : Ronnie Ghedan
Country : USA
Your Question :
I know it is almost impossible to compare eras, but how do you rank Manny Pacquiao against some of the greats of the past now? Where does he stand against Armstrong, Robinson, Leonard and De La Hoya.
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Ronnie, you can never compare different eras for obvious reasons. All I’ll say is if Manny can do a number on Floyd then he will be on his way to becoming one of the greatest boxers of his generation.
GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Ronnie, all I can say is, in my opinion, Pacquiao is now up there amongst the all-time greats to have ever laced up the gloves.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: It is so hard to rate the best of the best over 100+ years. Certainly, Henry Armstrong and Ray Robinson were brilliant during a lot more fights. He may not be the best of the best of all time, but Pacquiao has to be considered near the top level. I’m putting Pac-Man ahead of De La Hoya.
MICHAEL NORBY: Pacquiao is a great fighter today, Ronnie. He has shown that time and time again and will be talked about for years to come. What he has accomplished is truly incredible, going from 106lbs to 144lbs and winning a string of world titles along the way. It’s rare that a fighter comes along that can do the things he does and its fun to watch.
JERRY GLICK ANSWERS: A fight for the ages against Armstrong, but he cannot beat the Sugar-man, but I think he will always beat Oscar.
Name : Will Black
Country : Canada
Your Question :
Hi guys. Wow! What a showing by the Pac-Man, I’ll never doubt him again. I thought Cotto looked as good as ever early, but Manny just shrugged off his power. Did anyone see that coming? So now everyone wants to see him destroy Mayweather, and after the Cotto fight, I now believe it could happen. But will the fight happen? And will Floyd out slick him like everybody else?
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Hello Will. I certainly hope Pacquiao vs. Mayweather happens. I think the fight has to happen. Don’t get me wrong I think our sport is more popular now than it has been for years but there is not that many genuine super fights out there and the suits at HBO, Mayweather and Pacquiao realise this.
GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Will, I’m hoping like everyone else that we’ll see Pacquiao-Mayweather sooner than later. I think it’ll come down to whether Mayweather can make Pacquiao consistently pay enough when Pac-Man forces the caution-first Mayweather to fend off his many assaults. Can Mayweather make Pacquiao think twice before he commits to forcing exchanges? We’ll see…
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: There is so much many available, it would seem that the fight will be made eventually after so robust negotiations. If it doesn’t get made, it means one of the fighters doesn’t really want it. Mayweather is the best defensive boxer I have ever seen. Can Pacquiao’s fast hands hurt Mayweather? At some stage I suspect he will land and if Pacquiao really hurts Mayweather, how does he react? A fascinating question.
MICHAEL NORBY: As great as Pacquiao is, he will find a lot more difficulty with Mayweather. Beating De La Hoya, Cotto and Hatton in such convincing fashion is terrific, but in Mayweather he’ll face someone just as fast, just as skilled and just as smart as him. Mayweather is probably one of the most difficult to hit boxers of any generation and his effectiveness is second-to-none. It’ll be a close fight if it happens.
JERRY GLICK ANSWERS: I picked Cotto so “No Comment”. I believe with all my heart that Floyd and Manny will fight. They MUST! I still like Floyd.
Name : Luca Biason
Country : United Kingdom
Your Question :
I feel really sorry for Cotto as he fought his heart out and the doubt will always linger as to whether his true best was illegally beaten out of him by Margarito’s plaster (it’s pure speculation, but Margarito deserves nothing else). Even though in very different circumstances, Taylor was never the same after the physical punishment he received from JCC. I hope Cotto will detoxify his system after this fight and think long and hard before stepping in again. Back to the great Pac-Man, he truly is out of this world, regardless. Like all boxing fans around the planet, I hope the contractual thunderstorms that are bound to follow suit will land us the fight we all want to see. It would be a cracker and the key would be really in fractions of milliseconds: who nullifies the other’s speed. PBF is an all-round ring master who has taken the purest art of boxing to a level very few have in the past and ever will in future, no doubt about it. An awesome counter-puncher who is very, very difficult to put under real pressure. Pac-Man has an unbelievable arsenal of angles when he attacks, but in my view - with someone as fast and accurate as PBF - he leaves a few openings when he goes full throttle, especially with his head that high, and no doubt PBF will exploit it. If he counters and lands first, he’ll nullify the attacks, otherwise tough night. Having said that, Roach knows everything: I convinced myself that DLH at his peak at welterweight (with someone like Roach in his corner) would have given a very hard night to PBF, and it’s not insane to expect even more of that with the mighty Pac-Man. As said, more than any other fight now on the table, this one will be really played on fractions and I can’t wait to see it happening as it promises to be a master class of boxing for the ages. Fingers crossed!
GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Luca, it’s a shame that De La Hoya didn’t take more chances against Mayweather because even though Oscar lost a split decision in an awful fight, which should have been scored a unanimous decision for Floyd, it was nonetheless a close fight. What makes Pacquiao-Mayweather truly amazing is I don’t think anyone can accurately predict whose style will rule the day. I can’t %*&@ing wait to find out!
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: I thin Cotto was close to his best. He certainly looked fine in round 1. Mentally, I think what happened before Mosley-Margarito helped Cotto rationalise what happened to him. But after the beating Pacquiao gave him, Cotto’s future is in doubt. Very tough to come back from that. While I’m leaning towards Pacquiao over Mayweather, I give Floyd a great chance to win. He is too great a fighter to be written off. Great fight. Let’s see it.
MICHAEL NORBY: De La Hoya did give Mayweather a hard time until he abandoned his jab in the later rounds, Luca. I agree with your assessment of the Pac vs. Mayweather match-up, though. Too close to call, but you have to wonder how Pacquiao would negate Mayweather’s mastery of boxing – defensively and offensively. I hope the fight happens so we can all find out.
JERRY GLICK ANSWERS: Great comments, Luca. I see this encounter as the best potentially since Ali-Frazier I.
Name : Paul McBride
Country : USA
Your Question :
First, congrats to Pac-Man for another great win. Does that make him the first fighter in history to win titles in four of the original weight classes...fly, feather, light and welter? Second. My own take on the who would beat Ali question. It’s hard enough getting predictions right for fights that happen, let alone mythic match-ups! After all, who had a prime Foreman losing to an older Ali? Ali trouncing Liston and going life and death three times with Norton? Tyson getting laid out by Douglas? How about Holyfield beating Bowe in their second fight? And that’s before we talk about Lennox getting flattened by McCall and Joe Louis being beaten up by Max Schmeling. Performances also vary too...who had Lennox boxing tactical against Evander and bombing out Golota in 90 seconds? How about Tommy Morrison boxing and moving his way to a points win over Foreman? If you envisioned and predicted that, I’ll be very surprised. There’s also a tendency to imagine the fighters having set statistics like in a video game along with all the experience (and damage) they accumulated throughout their careers... we all give the prime Ali the chin that he demonstrated against Foreman, which surely was in part due to the experience and battle-hardiness he’d gained AFTER his prime. No-one cites the knockdown against Cooper when we talk about the prime Ali, for example. Unless Cooper hit harder than George Foreman and Earnie Shavers, can we really put a set value on Ali’s chin? Surely these examples make the point that chin, speed, power, stamina all vary across a fighters career. We really don’t know how well a prime Ali took that kind of punch, as he didn’t face a murderous puncher also in their prime at the time. At the end of the day, Roy Jones Jr may have beaten Marciano and then got KO’d by Floyd Patterson...it’s all feasible, sometimes we need to see it to believe it...something Ali himself showed against Foreman and Liston against big odds. Lennox beating Ali? Of course it’s possible...along with Ezzard Charles, Vitali Klitschko and Evander Holyfield. We simply can’t say for sure because it never happened. We can imagine these match-ups in our heads, but anyone who says FOR SURE that one fighter would’ve beaten another (at world class) must be a very rich person now, having won at the bookies on Holyfield vs. Tyson and DLH vs. Pac-Man, for example.
GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Paul, I think you’re spot on regarding Pacquiao’s amazing collection of the traditional weight class belts. Hard to believe he totally skipped bantamweight. I don’t have much to add to you assessment of who would beat Ali. You make some great points…a real student of the game!
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Some excellent observations there. Which goes back to what I have said before in ATE – anything is possible in boxing and that is what we get the boxers to have the fights, so we can see what happens. Two boxers enter the ring and either boxer can win on the night. It would be pretty boring if the favourites won all the time.
MICHAEL NORBY: And email of the week goes to…You hit it on the head Paul.
JERRY GLICK ANSWERS: Ali was a prime 32 when he faces big George who said years later, I was too young to beat that guy. How right he was. I can’t comment on all your combinations but Ali would have beaten them all. One thing that has been said about boxing that will always hold water; styles make fights. You don’t have to be the biggest puncher to score a knockdown, just land it right (Ali-Cooper I). Big hitters like Liston, Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, & others didn’t deck or beat Ali. Cooper hit hard enough, not the hardest, just enough to do the job.
Name : Stephen McNish
Country : United Kingdom
Your Question :
Hi guys, big fan of the website, keep up the good work! My point is with Pac-Man vs. Cotto happening later on tonight, a lot of talk surrounding wether Cotto is the same after the Margarito fight and whether you can read too much into that fight because of wrapgate! This is a very valid point, but I feel that it’s possible that Margarito has done this a few times before, so shouldn’t people be looking at the Margarito-Williams fight and giving Paul Williams a lot more credit. I believe that Paul Williams is the one guy who could beat Mayweather at welterweight because of his reach and punch output and I believe he could win titles up as far as the super middleweights what are your thoughts on this?
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: I understand what your saying, Stephen. If Williams fought Mayweather a year ago I think you may have an argument but Paul is now 28 and weighed 157lbs in his last fight not sure he will see 147lbs again.
GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Stephen, I tend to agree with you that Williams has a potentially huge upside, taking into consideration his physical prowess and skills. He’ll probably need good opponents to sweeten the pot and stir up big interest in his fights, but there’s no doubt he has what it takes to win championships at 168 or maybe even 175 lbs.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Yes, I agree. More credit to Paul Williams! He is a real talent.
MICHAEL NORBY: There are not too many fighters that I would pick with any confidence to beat Paul Williams, Stephen. That includes Mayweather, Pavlik or anybody else. He’s big, strong, energetic, awkward – he’s the whole package.
JERRY GLICK ANSWERS: I have been thinking about Tall Paul a lot recently. I can’t see Pac-Man winning against such a tall talent as is Williams. One day I think he will be a light-heavy. Paul and Floyd would be a better match-up.
Name : Craig Stewart
Country : United Kingdom
Your Question :
With the latest Super 6 match-up on the doorstep, I was wondering a few things. Do you guys think that we are about to see the eventual winner in action (Kessler), I personally can’t see past him as winner or possible Abrahams is the only other fighter with a chance. Secondly, I am a massive boxing fan and was enthusiastically explaining the concept of the Super 6 to my brother and after finishing he rather dismissively looked at me and said, Well, that’s just what sport is, a contest where the best compete with the best to determine the winner. I did think to myself that much about this sport is just shouting, bragging and talking your way to the top before dodging anybody that you know may beat you. Should we as fans not demand this type of true meritocracy in boxing. Then those who only talk a good game will be shown up (Froch an imminent example), and those who step up and fight the best and win i.e. Pacquiao, Cotto, Winky (few years back) will truly and rightly be hailed
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Craig, in an ideal world your brother would be spot on but this is boxing. Unfortunately the best boxers do not get the big fights. If you are an average fighter but possess the talents of a great talker and showman the chances are the tv networks will love you. Unfortunately boxing is the only sport where the very best do not always get to fight each other. The other reason of course is the ridiculous politics that exist within the sport.
GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Craig, whatever method or path a talented fighter takes along the way, the cream always rises to the top. If a guy doesn’t really belong at the highest echelon of the sport, he’ll eventually be exposed.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: I think it will be a Kessler-Abraham final, but Froch may have something to say about it. Greg is right. Eventually, boxers either prove themselves at the top of they fall to the side.
MICHAEL NORBY: I think Kessler is the man to beat but, as you point out, Abraham is the type of guy that can explode and destroy anybody on a given night. I’m predicting that it will come down to those two fighters. As for your second point…yes, that’s what boxing fans should demand, but the people are either not shouting loud enough or just being ignored. Elite and willing fighters like Pac, Cotto, Winky and Marquez etc…are few and far between unfortunately.
JERRY GLICK ANSWERS: Interesting take on boxing and those who talk the talk, but walk the walk.
Name : William Wade
Country : Germany
Your Question :
I thought David Haye’s control and discipline fighting Valuev in his adopted country were impeccable. Now, 2010 promises a lot of opportunity for him in the heavyweight division. I see Haye winning against a lot of top level fighters, but I see some dangers there too, namely the Klitschko brothers, David Tua (on form) and possibly Ruslan Chagaev (tricky style). What are your thoughts on who Haye should possibly hold off on in the coming year?
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Hi William. In my opinion David should hold off on the Klitschkos, Chagaev and Tua. Also Povetkin and Solis as well. Having said that the big money is with the Klitschko fights and that’s where he is aiming, though he is also contracted to face Valuev in a rematch.
GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: William, I’m thrilled Haye managed to win one of the major belts. It’s about time we had a raw and brash guy in there to stir things up a little. Strangely enough, I think I’d avoid Tua more than anyone you named. It’s no mistake why nobody takes Tua on short notice. While he certainly doesn’t deserve a shot and stunk the joint out when he did get his shot against Lewis, the guy can still knock you dead with one hook, while the Klitschkos (z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z) and Chagaev don’t possess that type of devastating one-punch knockout power. The Klitschkos have power, but not like Tua’s.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: Haye needs to take are of John Ruiz first. The biggest money fights are against the Klitschkos. I give Haye a chance against Wladimir, but no hope against Vitali. If he has trained and is prepared, Tua is very dangerous. Will be interesting to see how Haye establishes himself at heavyweight. Is he going to go more to his power knockout game, or will we see more tactical boxing? I’m with Greg. Great to have a champion with some personality.
MICHAEL NORBY: I’d like to see Haye take on Tomasz Adamek – that would be an intriguing heavyweight contest. As far as the Klitschko’s go, I don’t think Haye has the stuff to cause serious problems.
JERRY GLICK ANSWERS: This year, next year, 2022 and beyond, don’t fight the Klitschkos.
Name : Paul White
Country : Australia
Your Question :
Hello again. We all love talking about great fights in the ring. How about a new segment! Best fights OUTSIDE of the ring! To me, there can only be one clear winner: Larry Holmes running over parked cars to kick Trevor Berbick in the face! Larry would have to be one of the toughest blokes ever born. Somebody should’ve told Trevor that! Lesson learnt: Do not disrespect Larry’s wife!
CLIVE BERNATH ANSWERS: Hi Paul. Your right, Larry went bananas and paid the life out of Berbick. How about Riddick Bowe’s left and right combo on Larry Donald? Quick as a flash, Larry did not know what day it was. Or how about Lennox Lewis and Rahman brawling in the tv studio?
GREG JUCKETT ANSWERS: Paul, one time while I was still just writing for Boxing Digest, Larry Holmes agreed to meet me in Easton, PA for an interview. He ended up spending most of the day with me one-on-one. It was an experience I’ll never forget. Holmes is an all-time great heavyweight and a good guy.
PAUL UPHAM ANSWERS: if may not exactly be a fight, but what about a press conference at Madison Square Garden one day. Don King is seen sprinting past the media and yells, Boxing is becoming a might dangerous business, closely followed in pursuit by Mitch “Blood” Green!
MICHAEL NORBY: Larry Holmes vs. Trevor Berbick in the parking lot will never be beaten as the most bizarre did that just happen moment in pre or post fight Argy-Bargy.
JERRY GLICK ANSWERS: Larry Holmes vs. a young Ali would have been great in or out of the ring. Berbick & Holmes? Just plain crazy, man.
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