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Kushner on boxing – Part One

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By Paul Upham: In this first of a two part series, SecondsOut.com talks with promoter Cedric Kushner who has fully experienced the sports dizzying highs and sickening lows over the last two years.
Interviewed in his uptown New York office, Kushner spoke candidly about success as a promoter, his rivalry with Don King and Bob Arum, the difficulties in promoting Sugar Shane Mosley (pictured) and his views on Roy Jones Jr.

Cedric Kushner arrived in the United States of America in 1974 with a dream of being successful, but unsure about the field of endeavor in which he would make his mark. After a career as a music promoter, Kushner has become one of the most active boxing promoters during the last 16 years.

Kushner has given many aspiring boxers an opportunity on the hundreds of shows that he has promoted. “My definition of success, without getting too philosophical, is when you succeed at something that you have set out to do,” said Kushner.

“I came to this country and I didn’t have very much, four hundred dollars to be exact. After doing various odd jobs, working in an automotive warehouse, loading trucks day in and day out, working as a messenger in New York, working in a big hotel making sure that the pool deck was clean, disseminating towels to the patrons and customers who came to sit by the pool.

“Having gone from there, and deciding one day that I wanted to be a big concert promoter, in a relatively short span of time I ended up promoting major shows with major groups in venues like Madison Square Garden or the 70,000 seat indoor arena, the Carrier Dome, in Syracuse, New York. I have made some progress.”

Kushner describes success as a finishing point, where as he is always looking for something better.

“The term success to me means that it’s no longer. Like you have now ended. You have reached a certain point and then you have stopped. I like to think my definition as having made progress. Starting under difficult circumstances, almost without capital, wanting to be a concert promoter and then becoming one and having made progress in that particular industry, that defines what I consider success. So, I consider myself having been successful in the music business,” he said.

“With the same passion I became involved in the boxing business. I always wanted to be the biggest promoter,” said Kushner.

“Today I look at Bob (Arum) and Don (King) as the biggest. I want to put things in proper prospective because I think my time will come. Don King is obviously not my best friend. We have had some very difficult times. As of now we are friendly, we are talking, we’ve discussed the parameters of a settlement in our total litigation. I am very happy about that and I look forward to being able to work with Don on some projects in the near future.”

Being a promoter brings a myriad of emotions, quite often having to work with your fiercest rival on a joint promotion.

“I think it’s quite interesting if nothing else. I’ve had problems in the past. Bob Arum and I have had problems and today I consider Bob and Todd (Duboef) very good friends of mine. We work together all the time, but in the past we have had problems, but that’s a long time ago and that is most certainly very much behind me. I like Bob
very much and I have a great deal of respect for him,” said Kushner.

“In a perverse way, I have a great deal of respect for King as well. I only say perverse because we’ve had a couple of rough patches, he and I.”

With both King and Arum having been at the top of the business for over 25 years, Kushner is obviously looking toward to the day when he no longer has to worry about them as rivals.

“Don King is a great promoter, you can’t take that away from him. But both he and Bob are getting a little older, they are both 70 and all you have to do is ask your girlfriend when you get older, you are a little slower than what you were when you were younger,” said Kushner.

“That’s a reality that we can’t change and that’s not meant in a derogatory way. That’s meant with sincerity and compassion. But, on the other hand, that might present opportunities for those who are younger. But I feel compelled, given my admiration for both these gentlemen, to say they will only retire and they will only leave the scene when they decide to leave the scene, not when someone else suggests that it is time for them to leave the scene. Having said that, don’t expect Bob or Don to leave the scene for a long, long time.”

Kushner has received much criticism for being unable to secure another super-fight for WBC welterweight champion Sugar Shane Mosley. But to be fair to Kushner, Mosley and his father Jack, there have not been that many big names around to challenge the outstanding WBC title-holder. Those who would be a worthy challenge such as IBF champion Vernon Forrest, WBA king Andrew “Six Heads” Lewis and Oscar De La Hoya have been unwilling or unable to get into the ring with Mosley.

Kushner points out that, for a really big fight to be successful, you need two champion boxers recognised by the public.

“If you look as we go back over the years, there was some great middleweight matches in the 1950s and 60s, Fullmer, Giardello, Bassilio, Griffin, Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake LaMotta and they gave each other opportunities. It’s important to note in that era how boxing was different. You could have a big fight and then have another big fight in another city, a rematch, maybe six weeks later,” he said.

“There were some incredible match-ups in the 1980s, Hagler fighting Duran, Hagler fighting Hearns, Hearns fighting Duran, Duran fighting Leonard. There was some terrific combinations if you will, machinations and some big, big fights.

“When Muhammad Ali was in his prime, Joe Frazier, Foreman, Shavers and Norton, there were quality opponents for him. I have an expression and I have used it on numerous occasions, when I have to defend the Mosley situation. I have to unfairly defend the Mosley situation, when people suggest that Mosley isn’t where he should be. I have to explain to people, that in order to have a mega fight, a big fight, a fight that defines the fighter, like a Mosley-De La Hoya fight, you have to have two ‘A’ sides.

“You can’t have an ‘A’ and a ‘B’ and expect a big fight. It simply doesn’t work that way. You need two ‘A’ sides. I offered Oscar De La Hoya, after Shane’s last fight, I offered him $10 million dollars. I would’ve offered him more had there had been a bite. But there was no interest whatsoever.”

It also should be noted that De La Hoya did turn down a guaranteed rematch clause after his loss to Mosley in June 2000.

“I have said that I am surprised that a great champion like Oscar has not elected to avenge one of his only losses,” said Kushner.

“It was a very close fight and it was a split decision. I’m in Shane corner’s I believe he really won the fight. It has been very frustrating for the Mosleys and it has been very frustrating for me. I’m quite sure that I, as the promoter, will be blamed for the fact that there hasn’t been some other super-fights. But the truth of the matter is that I can’t make someone take a fight that they don’t want to fight.”

Kushner has been meeting with HBO and is working towards putting together a card on January 19 to be headlined by Mosley.

“We most certainly are working very, very hard in putting a fight together. A Vernon Forrest or maybe even a 154lbs fight for Shane,” said Kushner, who says that HBO, “would like us to try to make a Vernon Forrest fight.”

Kushner is hopeful of eventually being able to entice IBF champion Forrest into the ring. “Some things I think you have to just persevere. When someone is making an important decision in their career, in their life, they are entitled to time and don’t have to give you an answer like you are ordering tea. Do you want two sugars or three?

“Vernon is looking for a lot of money, but I’m not sure what his mindset is so it is wrong for me to past judgement and a lot of money is an abstract comment. Define what is a lot of money?

“From everyone’s perspective, there is no-one who is telling you that Shane Mosley is not a great fighter,” said Kushner.

“I know that if a Mosley-Forrest match should take place, it will be one the public will want to see and one that I’ll be sitting ringside maybe as a realistically as the promoter but equally as a fan.”

When it is suggested to Kushner that Mosley is in a similar situation to undisputed light-heavyweight champion Roy Jones Jr in being unable to secure quality opponents, he feels that there are great opportunities for Jones Jr overseas.

“I’m a little disappointed at Roy when I think of him as a great fighter and, don’t get me wrong, he is a great fighter. When I think of him as a great champion, I question the fact that he never did a little more research on Rocchigiani, that he never did a little more research on Michelczewski and said, “Well, forget about fighting Michalcewski in Hamburg, Germany, I can beat Michalczewski in Poland. Let him go back to Poland where he comes from. Never mind his new country of Germany,” said Kushner.

“I think Roy is such a good fighter, there was no reason for him not to fight Rocchigiani and not reason for him not to fight Michalcewski and that would have made Roy not a better fighter in my opinion, but a great champion. A greater champion that he is today because if you have to think of any sport, you can’t just do it on your home turf. There are such things as home and away in all sports. I just think boxing is an international sport, he would have expanded his horizons, he could have created more fights for himself as well.

“I would have liked to have seen Roy, particularly a few years ago, say what the hell, let’s go to Germany, let’s make this work and get a lot of money and then, all of a sudden, he would have also opened up new horizons. I bet there would have been a good fight that he could have made in England. I bet there could have been a good fight that he could have made in France and be a world champion as Muhammad Ali was, as a real world champion. But I think Roy is a great fighter and I have a great deal of respect for him.”

Tomorrow in Part.2, Cedric Kushner talks about losing heavyweight champion Hasim Rahman to Don King, Jameel McCline, Michael Grant, his new hopes for the heavyweight division, his other world champions Frankie Toledo and Irene Pacheco, Heavyweight Explosion and the future of Thunderbox.


Paul Upham
Contributing Editor
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