In this week’s Ask The Editor some of SecondsOut’s loyal readers discuss the fallout of Floyd Mayweather vs Ortiz and who should the heavyweight Klitschko brothers fights next?
Name: Patrick MacKenzie
Your Question: Mike Sloan. Your article about the Mayweather/Ortiz fight is SPOT ON! And should be circulated everywhere on the net.
Clive Bernath: Hi Patrick, To be honest as soon as I read Mike’s excellent article about Mayweather vs Ortiz I thought exactly the same as you. The article was highly informative and explained the situation fully. As the editor In Chief of SecondsOut I feel very privileged to have so many very good ,informative and experienced writers on board.
Derek Bonnett: Patrick, I don’t know what else to say. Mike Sloan is an excellent writer. That is what you can expect from SecondsOut. We provide unrivalled world boxing coverage. The key to it is "world" boxing coverage.
Name Luca Biason
Your Question Hi folks. I have watched the Mayweather-Ortiz fight a few times and these are my thoughts. It was a much closer fight than many seem to have watched. Not that Ortiz was winning, but certainly he was not being outclassed, and I saw a few meaningful punches landing on Mayweather’s body and head, more than we are used to. The younger and fresher Ortiz was starting to close the gap - in terms of distance - with Mayweather and I believe it would have been a fascinating fight, had it continued. I also noticed that Mayweather looked fractionally less quick and accurate than usual, which - again - would have been interesting in later rounds. Mayweather’s punches didn’t seem to rattle Ortiz excessively, and we all know that he can pick himself up from the canvas, Berto being a bigger single-puncher than Floyd. I had Floyd winning the fight but not dominating in his usual fashion, and I was starting to get really excited when Ortiz literally lost his head. He had been fouling from the beginning, and I believe that Cortez, in one of his many crucial mistakes on the night, should have cautioned him earlier. After the deduction, which was more than due, we all saw what happened. Every law has a number of loopholes, which is to say that what is legal is not necessarily right. Mayweather was livid with anger and decided to punish the younger foe with some of his own money, and that closed the fight in a most disappointing fashion. All things considered, I don’t think Floyd lived up to his name and status by going for the cheap albeit legal shots. It was a very poor act of sportsmanship, and denied the boxing fans worldwide of what would have been a most interesting match. I don’t care that this has given food for discussions for years to come: if I’d want that, I’d listen to politicians. On paper Floyd won, in reality the big loser is the sport of boxing
Clive Bernath: Hi Luca. You can call it a cheap shot all you like but Floyd fought within the rules, period. And if we are talking about cheap shots Victor unleashed a few of those of his own but he chose to use his head. Its is very simple, from the second the bell goes until the final bell the golden rule is Defend yourself at all times.
Jerry Glick: I agree with much of what you say but it is also possible that a rusty Floyd would get better as the rounds went by. that being said, I thought that Mayweather would easily win, but that Ortiz would try to do what Oscar de La Hoya did, and that was to apply pressure. He did at times, but not enough. as to the ending, It was cheap, but legal. I don’t think Floyd was angry, just experienced and took advantage of the situation. there was Victor apologizing for what seemed like the tenth time. It was done, stop groveling; was he afraid to anger Floyd? did he think he would get hit for butting? YOU’RE in a fight, you WILL get hit. He was asking for it by over doing the apology.
Derek Bonnett: Luca, I am of the mindset that it was a pretty lopsided fight and that Ortiz was outclassed. The only moment he did well was right before his intentional head butt. I had no problem with the kid getting a big fight, but felt he was just happy to be there. His reaction to the end result pretty much confirmed it for me too. Floyd’s legs looked older than usual, I think. The moved him out of harm’s way in a reactionary manner, but not the same fluid, instinctual manner as he did in his youth. The ending combination will be questioned forever, but I felt it was legal. Ortiz was too focused on making nice for his personal foul. A fight had to break out at some point after the deduction. Ortiz was scared from start to finish in my opinion. I don’t believe he ever felt he could win. His future, if he wants one, could still be interesting with bouts against Berto, Zaveck, and just about any other contender. However, I really doubt we will see the same fire in Ortiz that we witnessed in Connecticiut against Berto. I covered that fight live for SecondsOut and count it among the best I have seen. I don’t think it can be replicated. Boxing may lose because of that, but not because of how the Ortiz-PBF showdown ended.
Jason Pribilla: Hello Luca. Thank you for writing. I will try to answer your points in the order you have written them: I am not sure which feed that you were able to view the fight, but in my opinion the HBO commentators made the fight seem closer than it seemed. In Round 3, Mayweather fired combinations at an alarming rate, and for over a minute Jim Lampley refreshed everyone on the well documented upbringing of Victor Ortiz.
I did not see any examples of Ortiz trying to close the gap. He was forcing Mayweather to the ropes, but he was not doing so effectively. Once inside, he grew frustrated and repeatedly resorted to using his head.
Cortez warned Ortiz mid-way through round four about using his head, and a foul that blatant should be an automatic point deduction.
I do agree that we were robbed of seeing how Ortiz would have reacted in Round 5. I think a knockout was inevitable, but the crowd was in to the fight, and deserved to see more action. I feel boxing was a winner for the evening. The PPV was solid from top to bottom, and a Main event that nearly everyone felt would end in a wide decision or late KO, was instead treated to something unexpected.
Name Barnaby Chesterman
I want to ask who you guys think the Klitschkos should fight next. I have two names: Povetkin and Helenius. Povetkin has been the best of the rest for the last three years at least and it’s about time he got in there with the brothers Grim. I can’t understand what he’s been playing at since he beat Chambers. Povetkin v a Klitschko is a must.
And secondly I say Helenius is ready. I know a lot of people think he still needs more time, but why? He’s beaten three former alphabelt holders in his last four fights, all by stoppage (Peter, Brewster, Liakhovic). That’s far better opposition than the likes of Haye, Adamek, Johnson, Arreola, Solis and others had beaten before they got their title shots. He’s big, he’s strong, he can bang. The guy’s ready isn’t he? Even if he doesn’t win, at least he’ll give them problems. And even if he loses, it will help bring him on and he’ll be better placed to fight the other Klitschko or even for a rematch. Let’s get it on.
Clive Bernath: Barnaby, Your quite right both Povetkin and Helenius should be in the frame to fight either Klitschko but I suspect both Povetkin’s and Helenius’s camps are waiting for the Klitschko’s to get a little slower and older. At this time I still see the Klitschkos dominating for quite a while yet.
Jerry Glick: Those are about the only two guys left with any credibility to fight the Klitschkos. No one beats the brothers at this time. I give Helennius the best shot because he can really bang, and can match them in size but they are just too good for him, or any other heavyweight at this time. In history, I give only Ali, Jack Johnson, Lennox Lewis, and maybe Joe Louis (too small) a chance.
Derek Bonnett: Barnaby, Povetkin and Helenius are the right names, but I don’t think either man is ready. Povetkin seems to lack the desire to mix it up with the Klitschkos and has wasted a lot of time since the Chambers fight. I once thought Povetkin could beat Wlad based on his endurance and come forward style with effective combination throwing, but Wlad is not the same fighter and Povetkin lacks the courage to get the job done against either brother. His willingness to fight Evander Holyfield is disheartening. Helenius, on the other hand, has much of what it takes to beat either brother. However, I don’t think he is ready. It would be a shame to throw him in there right now just because we lack a more exciting variable. I would like to see Helenius fight five more times before trying for the title. It may seem unrealistic, but he needs the development. He was challenged greatly by Sergei Liahkovich before he broke him down. He needs that type of fight with Dimitrenko, Solis, Chambers, Arreola, and Adamek to truly prepare himself for the best of the division. This will never happen, but right now, he loses. In a year or two, he might KO either half of the Brothers K.
Jason Pribilla: Hello Barnaby, It is nice to read a question from someone that has not completely given up on the heavyweight division.
After watching Povetkin’s last fight it is obvious he is not ready for either Klitschko, and he was wise to pass on the mandatory shot he earned by out-pointing Chambers three years ago. Besides, now he wears a paper-title and could make a pay-day fighting the shell of Evander Holyfield.
I like Helenius and I would match him up with Wladimir. Again, I don’t think he is ready, but he is the best available opponent at this time. Helenius has already proven that he could end a fight suddenly, and he would be tall enough to get his opportunities to test baby brother’s whiskers.
Vitali should fight the winner of the Thompson – Chambers fight at the end of the month. Thompson is the last man to win any rounds against a Klitschko, and he has not lost since. Should “Fast” Eddie prevail, he may be able to have more success with Vitali’s style than he did when attempting to get inside of Wlad’s jab.
Name Zack Parsons
I’m huge Floyd Mayeather fan and can’t believe this great boxer has not been appreciated more. I know I may be biased but come on lets give him some credit for his superb boxing skills? He may not always say the right thing outside the ring but he can’t be faulted in it. What do you guys at SecondsOut think?
Clive Bernath: I agree with you, we are entering an era where real genuine world class boxers are very thin on the ground. So with that in mind we should be celebrating him not trying to discredit him at every turn
Jerry Glick: As I have said before, he is the current wonderkind of boxing. There was Jack Johnson, Sugar Ray Robinson, Leonard, Ali, and now Floyd Mayweather. All had a certain swagger because of their boxing abilities and superiority. Remember Ali was hated, Johnson fought at a time when being black and the champ was a lethal combination, Robinson was called arrogant (for good reason), and so was Leonard. The only difference that I see with Mayweather is that he has a way of looking down at people. Reminding people of how rich he has become and how poor others are in this economic time is not going to win him any friends. The question will be; how will history treat him? I think quite well. Especially after he beats the likeable Pacquiao.
Derek Bonnett: Zack, only PBF fans and family members don’t think Floyd gets his fair due. He is universally ranked first or second in every P4P ranking I have seen as long as he has been active. You can’t get much better than that. If he is angry about losing fans, which he has, then he should not be inactive for such long stretches. Also, he can fight Manny Pacquiao like everyone wants. I think PBF is a superb boxer and he has impressed me time and time again since debuting as a professional. As a person, I loathe him because of his infatuation with money. As a fighter, I know he has few rivals today. Historically, he has plenty. His legacy is not as secure as he and his fans think though. Fighters like Pernell Whitaker and Sugar Ray Leonard often get tossed in with the PBF greatness discussion, but both men have done far more than Floyd and would soundly defeat him in their primes. There is no shame in that, but Floyd needs to realize that greatness is not measured by the number zero.
Jason Pribilla: Hey Zack. What I think is, “Hard Work….. Dedication!”
It took me a while to warm up to Floyd’s act and appreciate his skills inside the ring. I am 36 years old, and really started to follow boxing in the 90s. I would say Floyd, Bernard Hopkins, and Pernell Whitaker are the three best defensive fighters I’ve seen during that time. He does not have the offensive fire-power of Pacquiao or a prime Roy Jones Jr., but for overall ring generalship/intelligence Floyd and B-Hop are in their own class.
Floyd is a unanimous first ballot Hall of Famer right now, and he is only one victory away from being considered the best of his generation. I think he would beat Pacquiao if they fought in 2012, but I doubt we will ever see that fight happen.
September 30, 2011