Michael
Michael-
You know, I am that excited by Ward. As I said Monday, I love seeing a guy I’ve followed and believe in do what he told me all along he would. Is it the most entertaining style of all time? No. But it certainly doesn’t resemble Andre Dirrell or Cory Spinks or even John Ruiz. Not every fighter can have a big punch or super speed or technique. Not every fight can be picture perfect, squeaky clean yet full of action from bell to bell. I remember for the longest time I couldn’t mention Castillo/Corrales I without debating about Chico spitting out his mouthpiece twice. Now that fight, like HaglerHearns, evokes only memories of a great war with a fantastic finish. No one mentions anymore that Hagler low blowed Hearns a million times in that fight. We just remember glorious mayhem.
Now Ward-Kessler is nowhere near that echelon of action fight. It was a tactical, up tempo, chess match that got ugly in the trenches. But I wouldn’t call it boring and I wouldn’t call what Ward did looking average. He beat the favorite to win the Super Six after all. A guy who was supposed to be stronger, more experienced, and a harder hitter who would shoot past Ward’s low hands and open guard. But that didn’t happen and credit must be given. Ward fought the way he envisioned and prepared. To me, it looked like one guy had a game plan and a multitude of tactics to employ that plan and the other fighter thought he could show up, fight his usual fight and win easily. Didn’t happen.
I guess we’ll agree to disagree. Not being the biggest fans of Roy ones, Jr and Floyd (though I admire what they can do in the ring, I wasn’t always
excited by it), I can see your point about Ward not being the all action fighter we’d like him to be. But for a guy who favors Hagler and Tito style aggression, I’m actually entertained by Ward. Maybe it’s just the excitement of seeing a gold medal winner everyone wrote off as overrated prove that he belongs among the best. In any case, like I said, we’ll have to agree to disagree because this is one fighter I feel I am very right about.
It would surprise me if Taylor won. I don’t see it happening. There is just no evidence to suggest Ward’s style is one Taylor can turn things around with. Andre has too many tools, is too sure of who he is while Taylor still doesn’t seem to know why he is losing. Throwing a ton of punches might be an answer to Ward’s style. And that multiple jab of Taylor’s will be an issue but my guess is not for long as Ward will adjust and Taylor doesn’t counter adjust very well at all. I have Ward by wide UD or late stoppage. Having been knocked out 3 times in three years is going to come back and haunt Taylor at some point. Hopefully it doesn’t haunt us, too.
Rebutting the crow
I liked your response to my bitterness. We can agree to disagree. While I think Ward does employ many different styles which give him an awkwardness that foes cant get adjusted to, Ive watched him hold like this on more than one occasion. He isn’t an inside fighter to me, more like a guy that finds that range somewhere in the middle and mixes up his shots. I watched plenty of guys in Europe to know they don’t fight like that. You can get a lot of the one two, but they don’t hold and try to rough the other guy on the inside. Maybe to them its more of a job, but the passion is there too. But, were this fight in Denmark, he would have gotten a couple of points deducted. He cut both eyes with butts as he was coming in…I think both were when he was trying to grab. To me, there is just no place for that. I think holding should be outlawed unless you are hurt. Take a look at some of the best fights of the last ten years and you will find the combatants never held each other. That is real skill, to fight in the phone booth, slip shots, and come back. I think Ward is talented, yes I do. But he cannot fight inside and grabbing like that is not something I favor at all. Kirkland doesn’t grab right? Kessler didn’t initiate those grabs either. You can say he held too at some points, but he never initiated that imo. Its just not his style from what I have seen. Do you think Abraham grabs? What about Taylor…does he really unless he is hurt? Points should have been deducted which would have forced him to move more and would have given the fight more ebb and flow. If Ward does fight Abraham, you are going to see a ton of holding. Anyways, its all moot…Ward won and deserves the credit. Kessler had no gameplan and I think took him lightly, he wont in a rematch(which I think he can win, just keep the site neutral). But it does look like Ward will always give him trouble. I also agree with your point that Ward looked like the champ and Kessler did not. He was missing the fire like you said. He is going to need it, or he will be exited from this tourney quick. Even though he has Froch next, Froch is rough and tumble and will do what he has to to win, even if it is holding too much.
I think Abraham is taking it all, after what I saw from Kessler. Lets see how he deals with Dirrell, who has the fastest hands in that weight class.
Mauro
Mauro-
I watched Andre hold on more than one occasion as well. The Miranda fight to be specific. But then, as now with the Kessler fight, I didn’t have a problem with it. It was one tool in the midst of many. Yes Kessler was cut by two butts but in my opinion, they were not intentional in that Ward wanted to butt and cut him. I just think it was more of a case where one fighter was asserting himself physically in the fight, fighting like a champion defending his belt, and the other was allowing it to happen by not adjusting his angle or mode of attack. Things often happen to you because you let them.
Watching it again, yeah, Kessler barely initiated a few of the clinches. But again, he allowed himself to be treated that way. Andre kept hooking his arm around the outside of Kessler. Why not find a way to shoot an uppercut to the head or body? Why not step back and shoot the one-two? Why not work just as Andre was on the side? At some point, an experienced vet has to realize that he is in hostile territory, the ref is going to make them work out of clinches and the other guy is beating him to the punch and so that adds up to having to adjust. Kessler didn’t and he got beat up and beat because of it.
As you said, The Euros fight in a much different way than the Americans. They don’t use a lot of the movement and inside tricks that we do. They play more of a long range game for the most part. It’s all about technique. I agree Kessler hadn’t fought anyone fights that rough and tumble. But that’s not Ward’s fault and he shouldn’t be penalized for that. I don’t think the Euros fight with a lack of passion. I think they see boxing as a sport and as such, they follow the rules to the letter of the law for the most part. Though that may be strictly the Eastern Euros. British fighters like Ricky Hatton and Nigel Benn stretched things about as far as Bernard Hopkins. To me, rough fighters, biased refs, hometown decisions happen all over the world. This was not robbery or hometown job in my opinion.
Maybe in Denmark points would have been taken away but at the same time, isn’t that just lobbying for home court advantage for Kessler?
Kessler is a solid fighter but I don’t think venue was his problem. Being robotic with zero game plan or tactics to combat what Ward was doing was. If they fought again, I think Ward beats him again. Andre just got over the hump of his first title shot and consequently will only get better because of it. Kessler’s biggest wins are over Anthony Mundine and Librado Andrade, two guys who are not hard to find. His losses are to two men who move like few others. What’s going to change in the near future to make Kessler suddenly able to deal with that problem? I just don’t see it.
I think Froch is a perfect get back opponent for Kessler. He is there to be hit, will come forward, and has wide looping shots. I expect a war between these two with Kessler, should his face hold up, pulling it out down the stretch. Maybe even hurting Froch who has shown he can be dropped and hurt while Kessler has shown an excellent beard.
I expect Abraham to knock Dirrell out, too. Dirrell is all athleticism and zero game plan. Under the constant pressure of Abraham, I expect him to crack. Speed can be negated. Mental toughness cannot be faked. I think Ward will face Abraham in the final for that very reason. In my mind, they are the most well-rounded in terms of physical tools and mental toughness.
If I have a problem with the Super Six it’s that the titles are involved. We should be moving past them with something like this. The best are fighting the best for once in a blue moon which is something the belts and their respective sanctioning bodies don’t always push for. They are usually mandating a fight in their own best interests. All the fighters should fight on foreign soil based on eth rules of the tourney not because one or the other is a “champion.” We’ll have the man who can call the shots when this is all over. That’s kind of the point of a tournament, isn’t it?
IS FLOYD KIDDING?
Hi Gabe,
Bitter sweet month for boxing hasn’t it? Ward was stellar, Pac was even better...but it is dampened by the collapse of Z Gorres and the death of Fransisco Rodriguez. Hope it reminds everyone that there is a high price the fighters pay to make the sport we love great.
With that said is team Mayweather for real? Their behavior, reasoning, business planing, public relations, you name it, has been so bad its almost comical. I feel as fans, that we deserve more...let me rephrase... as a fighter, Floyd is disrespecting boxing, the sport that has given him everything. How did the universe allow such utter delusion and ineptitude to meet? I mean Leonard Elerbe is just as delusional as Floyd JR and SR. Between the refusal to make weight against JMM or even explain why to the constant contradiction about why he wont fight certain fighters...my new favorite is, "Sugar Shane has no following, Marquez has a whole country behind him" as said to Brina Kenny prior to his fight with JMM, followed by, "I did 1 mill PPV with out a dance partner" as his excuse why he is better than Pac vs. Cotto...to trying to ingratiate him self to the fans by showing his charity work...everything they do makes them look more and more pathetic.
Floyd hire me to be your adviser...actually... here is my advice on" how to become the greatest" no charge.
No more bragging. no more talking.
Fight and beat Pac. (you are so capable of doing this, and honestly Cotto showed just about everyone, that you could probably do it with one hand... your Jab)
Beat Mosley.
Move up and beat 2 or 3 154 lbers, Angulo, Cintron, Martinez, Williams, whoever...you have the talent to be a favorite against all..yes, Floyd you are that good.
Move up and emulate Roy Jones and out box a middle weight belt holder. Felix Strum perhaps.
retire with a hundred million more in your account and every boxing writer and fan debating where you rank on the all time list.
Its time to give back Floyd.
Sorry Gabe that was more of a rant than a question, but I want to be a fan of Floyd’s but he is doing everything in his power to stop me and I just had to get it out
Keep up the good work!
Thanks
J
Tell us how you really feel, J.
I have to disagree with you a bit, though. Mayweather’s last few fights have generated so much cash its ridiculous. He’s upped his profile tenfold since his days chasing Mosley and Oscar for big paydays. Has he been exciting while doing it? Hell to the no but you can’t deny the man has had a plan, worked it, and come out the other end with his goals achieved even if some of that money was blown through extravagance, bad investments or an economy that’s kicking all of our asses. Not many guys can get away with taking few risks and making that much cash. Yes, the constant contradictions are annoying but at this point, expecting Floyd to not contradict himself is like expecting Leonard Ellerbe to not be his arrogant sycophant. Those are two constants along the lines of me being 5’9” and Mexican for a long time to come.
I do agree that Floyd not making weight and then not even attempting to on the day of the weigh in was crackish and disrespectful to the sport. Floyd reminds me of those guys in Hollywood who work their way up the food chain getting abused by every boss they have. When they finally achieve success, they behave even worse than the people they swore they’d never become. Floyd insists on taking fights he can only win while throwing his money in our faces and demanding we call him great. At the very least, it’s annoying. But do what I do, ignore him when you can and praise him when he finally does something worthy of it above 135 pounds.
The Pacquaio fight is a prime example of when we should praise him. Top Rank and Golden Boy will probably come up with a name like “For All the Marbles” or “There Can be Only One” to hype up a battle between two pound for pound fighters vying for top dog status. I say call it “No Excuses.” Both guys are evenly matched. They’ve beaten common opponents, shown they can carry skill, speed and KO power up to the higher weight classes, and are near prime. Should either win, I don’t want to hear “Floyd or Manny is not really a welter, Manny is juicing, Floyd ran all night” or any other excuse. These two are the guys everyone from fighters in the gym to writers on the beat to the guy at the cab stand to the hot SkyBar waitress want to see fight. So no excuses, 50-50, let’s get it done so we can start arguing about the fight.
For me, I’d love to see Manny fight one more fight against Mayweather. Win or lose, if it’s a close, great fight, do it again. Then walk away. For Floyd, I’d like him to finish up with Manny and then Shane. Nothing else would need to be proven in my opinion. A Paul Williams or Kelly Pavlik fight at 160 would be cool but I don’t need to see it. I think welter is the last great weight class for Floyd and Shane and Manny are the guys to bring out what we need to see from lil Floyd.
Will he do it? I hope so. I’m tired of the bullshit, too.
TALK ABOUT A FANTASY MATCHUP
How are you doing Gabriel, i am a big fan....
I was watching Golpe a Golpe (ESPN boxing show) and MABarrera said that Pacquio only has been a champion in 5 different weight divisions, not 7 as everyone is saying, he said that 2 were international belts that should not count, is this correct????
My favorite fighter of all time is Salvador Sanchez, i always thought that he would beat Pacquiao but now i am not so sure, what do you think??
Have a Great Thanksgiving to you and your family...
Ismael
SD
Whatsup Ismael?
Titles anymore are so diluted by diamond belts, international belts, champs emeritus and the like that it’s hard to know who has won what. Manny does have a few international belts. He won them at super bantam (but eventually won an IBF version), at super feather (but again eventually got a WBC version of it) and at 140 when he beat Hatton (though some consider that fight for the linear title). If you really want to take a stab at Manny’s legacy, consider that he just fought for a belt that Cotto won via box off with Michael Jennings. Talk about a paper belt. What’s worse is they fought for the welter belt at a catch weight of 145 pounds. But you know what? Who really cares? One thing I hear now from casual fans is “Is it true Manny has won 7 titles in 7 weight classes?” It’s too hard to explain to them the ins and outs of what that really means. That and it takes away the magic they’re feeling for my sport right now. So I just say “Yeah. Pretty much,” and ready to answer the next two inevitable questions of “Will Mayweather fight him?” and “Do you also cover the UFC?”
One thing I don’t hear from John Q. Casualfan is “Wow. Pacquiao sure looked great taking that WBO welterweight title.” See? It only matters to them when you lump together “7 titles in 7 weigh classes.” It rarely seems to matter when two guys are fighting for a title anymore. Good fights transcend the belts.
So while we can grouse about what Manny or Floyd or Oscar did or didn’t win and how, in the end, if the fights are good, that’s all that matters. Here’s hoping Manny vs. Floyd for the pound for pound title (is there any title more meaningless?) is simply a great fight that determines who is best among two great fighters.
Now on to the question I really want to answer.
Manny vs. Chava.
Now at this stage, Manny is a welterweight while Salvador Sanchez will always be a giant-afroed featherweight with the ability to bang, the intelligence to know he didn’t have to, and the skills to make that work for him.
Manny is a phenom who has been able to traverse a wider weight gap than any we have ever seen. It’s hard to say if he is hitting his stride or his prime or both. Which leaves me with the problem of figuring out where these two meet in terms of weight.
Since Manny has a nice body of work at featherweight and Salvador only fought there, we make it 126 (Manny actually would impose a catch weight of 125 which Sanchez would easily make by shaving his fro).
The last time Manny fought a 5’7” counter puncher who could bang a little bit and fight going backwards and forwards, he was named Juan Manuel Marquez and he took Pacquiao to the limit. I see no reason why that wouldn’t happen here. The closest fighter to Pacquiao on Chava’s record is probably Azumah Nelson in terms of speed, athleticism, toughness, power and stamina.
Sanchez stood 5’7” to Manny’s 5’6” and ½. They each have a 67” reach. I think Manny might have the edge in power but in terms of boxing skill, understanding how to fight 15 rounds (yes it would be that long) and ability to withstand power shots from a KO artist (Wilfredo Gomez anyone?) the edge goes to Chava. The biggest thing I will give Manny in this fight (besides his speed and power) is the fact that Chava did not face a southpaw in any of his big fights. Safe to say I am very hard pressed to confirm a southpaw in on his resume.
I see a long, drawn out war with Chava’s ability to adjust being the difference. Lead or no lead, Manny had trouble cutting off the ring against a retreating, bleeding, and looking for a way out Cotto. He would have the same trouble with Chava only he would be getting hit much more in the process.
Give me Chava by UD 15.
Montoya’s Weekend Fight Picks
At The Bell Centre, Montreal, Canada
(HBO) Lucian Bute (24-0) vs. Librado Andrade (28-2): Bute by UD
(HBO) Ali Funeka (30-2-2) vs. Joan Guzman (29-0): Funeka by UD
Craig McEwan (16-0) vs. James Parison (12-0): McEwan by UD
At The Pechange Casino, Temecula, CA
(Showtime) John Molina (18-0) vs. Martin Honorio (25-4-1): Molina by TKO
(Showtime) Rico Ramos (13-0) vs. Alejandro Perez (14-1-1): Perez by SD
